Confidential's food reviews: the shocking truth exposed

Cas says..“ Can I just say that seeing as they all know who you are, that perhaps you're getting better food and service than us mere mortals - thus making the reviews automatically inaccurate. I appreciate that's an incredibly hard thing to deal with but you must see the point.”

Editorial says..“ Cas, we don't actually. Unless you mean we should send new reviewers in every time. And as for recognising the reviewers that's not always the case, hence the need, one supposes for, these pics in the kitchen. Nor does this apparently better service mean we don't find things wanting, hence the must-try-better reviews we post.”

scoteee says..“ I think your'e being unfair Cas.If Mancon are to review a place they normally give pretty realistic responses to their experience, otherwise it would all be superb reviews the likes of which shite are found on the fabricated and paid for MEN website.Moreover, what restaurant in Manchester is so sharp that they have a gallery of images for all the local and national food journalists on the off chance that one might just show up? Nah, can't see it me-self!”

Editorial says..“ Dear anon, sorry we deleted your comments by accident as we were independently and impartially correcting our spelling mistakes.”

Knowledgeable says..“ Actually, shit food will always be shit food, whether the kitchen recognise you or not.”

GKW says..“ I am in agreement with Mancon on this one, I have dined out in many restaurants in town and around the country and have seen most of the local critics and Michelin also AA critics. There presence is usually quite obvious by their actions whilst drinking and dining, watch for the sharing of dishes between guests and the odd note written during the meal and in Mancon's case the flashing of a camera (if Gordo is there it might be just flashing). On the whole most revues are quite genuine and most restauranteurs like to get the critics in and out a s a p.”

Cas says..“ I'm not having a pop, just saying that there can be only one reason why a restaurant would have their pictures on display for staff - and that must be to provide a top notch experience where possible. I am aware though you cannot polish a turd and I would have thought those kind of places have no clue who the reviewers are anyway. I hazard the above photo was taken at a better establishment. I am certainly not having a go at the reviews as I often go to places simply from what I read on this site, very often actually.”

scoteee says..“ @ Knowledgeable,my point is that the MEN take money and give great reviews when in-fact the proprietors establishment is serving shit food. ”

Anonymous says..“ Scoteee, the restaurant mentioned in the article is obviously sharp enough as they have a rogues gallery, read the article.”

Descartes says..“ Off topic I know, but you're quite right; mayonnaise absolutely has no place on chips.”

scoteee says..“ anonymous you're right, Cas I apologise. I am in fact a twat!”

Anonymous says..“ Sugarvine and Onionring make their money by making websites for restaurants though don't they? It'd be all kinds of difficult to pitch them a website if a writer had just said they were sh!te.”

AD says..“ I think that mancon has been a little guilty in the past of muddying the water. There are Food articles on the site that are not reviews - like when you helped the chophouse by tasting their new menu - these articles are easily mistaken for reviews and that doesnt help you to look impartial, and its understandable why that leads to questions. I'm sure that the reviews are honest and independent, if Mancon was selling them then I'm sure that the MEN and other rival publications would have outed you as that would be in their own best comercial interests. As to knowing who you are - personaly I would like you to out the restaurant with the mug shots on the wall. What they are doing is not just giving critics something better but saying clearly that everyday customers, their livelyhood, dont get their best effors with food or service.”

Knowledgeable says..“ @scotee. No local newspaper would never dream of giving someone a negative review, no matter how shit the food was. I'm not sure their critics would know if it was shit or good, anyway as most reviewers up here are news reporters who get sent as a treat for being good.”

emma grace says..“ To be fair to mancon AD, you know if it's a review or not if they score it at the end. They do make it pretty clear when things are reviews, and when things are just articles...”

GKW says..“ @knowledgeable please read the latest 2 reviews in the MEN website re Livebait and the Park inn, it might change your view of things”

Anon says..“ I want to know which restaurant put your photo's up.... spill the beans! ”

Mark Garner, the Publisher says..“ Anon, the bloody photographer won't tell us who it was!”

Avo says..“ Right then. In order to narrow it down, you need to think of the kitchens in Manchester that have white tiled walls, stainless steel fittings and light switches. Hmmmm”

scoteee says..“ And a bar Avo...”

Mark Garner, the Publisher says..“ Exactly, Avo. By the way everyone who brings up the initially sensible reasoning that if the guys out their know us, we will get better service or food. You would not believe what happens to front and back room staff sometimes. The poor places actually get poorer, they seem to go into meltdown. Some of the top places lose it as well, it's remarkable. The truth is that if you are good as a reviewer, you can see through all these. Also, we have another three reviewers who non of you guys know who report to as well.”

Review Reader says..“ That's a bit weird. Under a review of Topkapi I write a supportive comment about Man Con's obvious impartiality and then surfing the site find this whole article devoted to such independence. I feel like reiterating my point so I will. Mancon is the only commercially run web-site I know where you can read uncomplimentary reviews of restaurants and I, for one, value it very highly. ”

Review Reader says..“ ... If this was a box asking for suggestions (or I could find one designated for such a purpose) I'd suggest dating reviews. Old reviews are sometimes unfair to new chefs who have made improvements since the date of the review or to readers who find the good review inaccurate after the loss of a good chef and subsequent decline of a restaurant. Right now there is no way of telling how old the review is and I think there ought to be.”

Editorial says..“ Review Reader thanks for the comments but the review date is under the rant box, under the icons at the foot of the page. Probably needs to be higher up thanks.”

Gordo says..“ JS, it does appear that we need to move this to the top of the page; this is the third comment on this during the past few weeks. Thanks for the comments RR”

AD says..“ Just re reading the article your quite clear that the review itself is impartial. But how do you choose where you review? Does Mancon accept money from restaurants in return for a review, even if there is absolutely no promise to the restauranter about what you then write? (Just so people dont think I'm critisising, It seems perfectly fair to me for Mancon to take money from people for the pleasure of being reviewed so long as the restaurant in question is subject to the same standard of impartiality as any other non paying restaurant - you are afterall entitled to your business model!)”

Editorial says..“ Ad no way would we accept payment for a review that would muddy the waters. We take money for ads not reviews. For them we sneak in when we want.”

AD says..“ Many paper based publications put the words "Advertising Feature" on anything thats paid for, if its written in a similar style to a written article, have you considered doing the same?”

Cas says..“ Here's a revenue generating idea: When I go abroad, or to London, the hotel room desk always has local info. There's always a booklet with restaurant reviews etc in it, some of them are brilliant. I found an amazing Korean near Vendome in Paris that otherwise I would never have known about. Anyway these are also FULL of adverts. Combine ManCon's unsurpassed local knowledge with a fist full of ads and you've got a booklet for the many visiting business people and tourists that helps them, raises you profile, and makes you money. The hotels will distribute them as they don't want to upset you. 10%; please ;)”

Anonymous says..“ Would Scotee like to name these restaurants that have offered money for favourable reviews to the MEN, or is it just hearsay? If you are alleging that the MEN gives favourable reviews to advertisers, have a look at the City Life restaurant pages. There are 7 places with adverts in the sidebar. I think only one has ever been reviewed by the MEN, and that was probably ages ago. As to the comment that MEN reporters are given reviewing as a treat, consider 2 former MEN reviewers. Jonathan Schofield edited City Life, as a glossy lifestyle mag, therefore, hardly your local hack covering the court pages. Neil Sowerby was involved with feature writing, and has several years experience writing on food and drink. If someone is serving rubbish food, with sloppy service, the presence of a critic who is spotted will have minimal effect. They can't cook all new food, and stop shoddy students pretending to be waitresses become intelligent and motivated. It might do something to help with presentation perhaps.”

outragedofm1 says..“ I am of course thrilled to see that things are changing at MC, especially given this little gem from Mark Garner (Gordo) who stated on this very site in March 2007 that "half the restaurants reviewed on the MC site are also advertisers … and if he (Gordo) finds bad with an advertiser he sends them the review he would have published with a suggestion that they put things right”.”

foodpleasenow says..“ Outragedofm1, have you completed the quote? I was once told the same, but the last sentance was that he (Mark Garner) then sent in an uknown reviewer a few weeks later and if the mistakes hadn't been put right he published the original. This, I think, happened to Livebait. ”

outragedofm1 says..“ Well that is fair enough. And yes, I do appreciate it's a thin line to tread between artist freedom and commercial pragmatism. However, the point I was trying to make is that however lofty the ideals expressed in the article are, the quote (in full or part) illustrates that it's not that long ago either that there were ackonwledged differences in how advertisers and non-advertisers were treated at ManCon, hence the skepticism that lingers. Perhaps if ManCon could point me in the direction of critical reviews (albeit constructive) of (then) current advertisers, then I'd be convinced enough to embrace this new ethos of glasnost!”

JayneyBaby says..“ Outragedofm1, I have followed Gordo for five years and have read everyone of his reviews, as well as most of schofields. Lets turn this on it's head, show us a review that you think is biased towards a paying advertiser. Also, show me one North West reviewer from any other media who write as well as this team on food and drink. Go on, just one. They are a phenomenom. They have built this site with their own funds and advertising money. Bloody well deserve a bit of support I think.”

Jackson Brown says..“ Outraged, I don't understand you. If you don't trsut the reviews, why are you using this site? ”

outragedofm1 says..“ Neither of you seem to have have noted the point that there were differences in how advertisers and non-advertisers were treated in the recent past, hence my skepticism and probably what triggered the initial article. As for why I visit, I visit a range of sites and tend to make my own mind up (I'm especially fond of Qype as that seems to be the most transparent and fair minded). ”

scoteee says..“ Would annonymous care to put a name up?I don't think people requesting a response should hide behind their comments.The reviews and pointers indicating places to eat around the city in the MEN are not always impartial in my experience, almost to the point that they are lazy and advise badly.I have eaten in a few places around Manchester and then find reviews where the MEN recommend the same places I have had a shoddy experience at.Why not stop worrying what comments I make on the mancon site and go back to the world of the boring and stiff upper lipped MEN?”

James T says..“ Outraged just tried Qype and was downcast when it describes itself as site of 'user recommendations and reviews of the best things in London' and has a small section on Manchester. The thing is I want to read what a writer thinks who is paid by the magazine not opinions of amateurs. Then I'll make my judgement up about the review when I go. User sites are lazy in that they want the readers to do the work. Often they are full of that text language rubbish as well.”

Jackson Brown says..“ ”

Jackson Brown says..“ OOps. I just looked at Qype as well, it doesn't come near this site, and its full of amateur comments. With Mancon you get the best of both worlds. If i get a bad meal off one of Gordo's reviews I can call him a ****er and give my side, which leads in my opinion to reviews that are pretty much straight down the line. Outraged, you stick to Quyped and we will stick with Mancon. And you have missed the point boyo, show us an article on here (and they are all here, all five years worth) that is biased towards an advertiser.”

AD says..“ OutragedofM1 isnt saying the reviews are biased although he does say he's skeptical. He's saying that advertisers get a second bite at the cherry if they put on a poor show (which he has supported by quoting the publisher). His question is: do non advertisers get the same feedback and second chance? which, if he is correct about Gordo's comments, is a fair question.”

Terence Hungryun says..“ I'd like to propose more reviews away from the centre, especially places we can drive to in say an hour and a half. Love the reviews by the way.”

Cas says..“ Terry, if I can call you that, you're spot on.”

outragedofm1 says..“ Merely my opinion. Although, again no-one has acknowledged the point made by Gordo's quote... However, should you wish to take a case in point - let's look at the Odd empire. Odd are an advertiser and benefitted from a misleadingly titled advertorial on ManCon (http://www.manchesterconfidential.com/index.asp?Sessionx=IpqiNwy6JDTrIpqiNwF6IHqi) dressed up as an interview with Odd founder Cleo Farman) and a very positive review of Oddest which seemed to particularly be at odds with the rants that followed it - http://www.manchesterconfidential.com/index.asp?Sessionx=IpqiNwy6JWXkIpqiNwF6IHqi . However, the users out there are going it a very different slant, as reported in the rants and elsewhere. Which, coming back to the point is why I trust the opinions of users more than sites with commercial relationships to protect. And yes, especially sites like Qype which weight the scores of posters by the number of reviews they write helping people to see through faked reviews.”

Review Reader says..“ ...and on which other site, might I ask, do the editor and chief reviewer regularly take part in a discussion of the article? For its staff's depth of knowledge, its impartiality and its friendly, inclusive style, I think this site is internet treasure. ”

Cas says..“ If we took all of Gordos quotes and saved them, we could all be psychology authors. The man is a genius, geniuses often talk tripe, however I have often gone to a restaurant on his word alone - and loved it. Just looked at Qype and it certainly aint the future.”

emma grace says..“ Just checked Qype, not great really. Although I do think that reader comments are just as valuable as actual reviews. (thanks though to whoever brought Qype up as I am going to go to the Banksy viewing tonight in Soho, so it's served its purpose for me!)”

Descartes says..“ Have any of you even properly read Qype? It's bollocks. Case in point, 47 reviews of Piccadilly Train station. http://www.qype.co.uk/place/89290-Manchester-Piccadilly-Manchester.

Give me a trained writer over someone that's a bit bored and searching for something to do any day”

Cubby says..“ What's only been touched upon is the rant section. I've read many restaurant reviews I've disagreed with and have always found my thoughts reflected in other customers' comments underneath the main article. As an advertiser I wouldn't be happy if I paid for a review only for 20 people to write "Oh no, I've been here and it's awful. Go here instead". The web allows us to hear a lot of people's opinions - the main review should only be the starting point.”

outragedofm1 says..“ Too right. It's not that Qype is better than ManCon, or any other site. It's merely that any researcher worth his or her salt will use more than one source of information. And I think reader opinions are well worth considering, having revolutionised the hotel sector (and if you don't believe me, just see how seriously things like tripadvisor are taken). So yes, sites like Qype, viewmanchester, beerintheevening and the like are well worth considering IMHO alongside the reviews of sites like ManCon and the local press.”

Anonymous says..“ mmmmm, I do so love websites that open 8 popups when I visit them, whoever designed www.beerintheevening.com is a genius.”

JayneyBaby says..“ Poor exmple that one Outraged, The Odd... bars and Cleo Farnham are exactly what Mancon should be promoting through advertising and reviews. A 15/20 bar result is spot on for that one. And Cleo is a great local operater. I love her. There is a review of another of her bars somewhere on here that was done, before they started advertising. Now I know you, Outraged, are the type that loves the last word come what may, so over to you, this was my last word on the matter.”

M30 says..“ I'm actually in agreement with Cas on this one. When Gordo or Mr Schofield enters an establishment, it goes without saying that the kitchen, management and waiting staff are going to bend over backwards to ensure they are looked after. I've been to restaurants which ManCon has described the service in glowing terms (Damsons, Mr Thomas' Chop House, Yang Sing etc) and have had service which would have disgraced a boarding house in Fleetwood during the winter of discontent). So, for that reason, when I read a ManCon review, despite them being well written (although the namedropping, sycophancy, cronyism and soliloquies about bottles of wine costing £50 or more piss me off...hence why I've never bothered to try Ramsons) I have to take it with a pinch of salt because of the recognition factor. By looking on a site such as Onionring or Sugarvine etc, you can obtain first hand accounts from the Hoi Polloi, which to me is invaluable. I found the Bawadi Café this way, which is a venue I can't remember seeing ManCon plugging. Whilst ManCon has brought to my attention restaurants I wouldn't normally have considered, it's always worth getting a second opinion.”

Anonymous says..“ Maybe they just didn't like you?”

Big Hairy Bloke says..“ Never had poor service in any of those three restaurants you mention M30, mind you I don't have a huge chip on my shoulder when I walk in either.”

Anonymous says..“ M30, are you that feller I have heard about that walks in with bad BO and a great big zit on the end of your nose?”

Steve says..“ M30 yes you'll get reviews from the hoi polloi from Onionring and sugarvine but what use is this when the sites only publish positive reviews??? About as much use as a Cheshire/Lancashire life review eh....ie totally pointless.”

Cas says..“ Leave M30 alone, so he has a differing opinion from you, so what. 'BO and zits'? Grow up.”

Chick says..“ I've received reviews from all of the folk mentioned above and I have to say, they have all been fair and honest. Reviewers, in an ideal world, should never receive better treatment than any other customer but I am sure it does happen in certain establishments. As for the mug shots pinned up in the anonymous kitchen; I know one food photographer very well and he spends as much time in the kitchen, watching the food being prepared as he does photgraphng it (and eating it!) If he took the photo and we're told it was recently, I can hazzard a pretty good guess as to where the kitchen is. Finally, we can argue for England as to whether reviews are fair or unbiased dependent upon advertising etc., but the bigger problem is some of the comments on the various web sites. For every genuine comment, there's two or three with a hidden agenda. Could be ex-employees or competitors adding a bad comment or current employees or friends adding a good one. Sometime it's pretty obvious, others are harder to spot. My point being that 'user' sites are no different from sites such as ManCon ”

M30 says..“ I'm not dignifying a response to someone slagging me off anonymously, but in response to Big Hairy Bloke, I've been in the restaurants I mentioned several times and recieved terrible service from the outset, either being barked at to wait, or had plates slammed down, etc etc. It's quite possible that they didn't like me, or someone I was with... and that matters because? - If that's the case, should restaurants only be open to people who the management like? I've never walked into a restauyrant with a chip on my shoulder, but if I've had a bad experience somewhere more than once, I'm certainly not going to reccomend it, and I'll be vocal about my experience when it's discussed.”

emma grace says..“ It's funny, for an article that was supposed to clear things up, it seems to have the complete opposite effect! ”

Anonymous says..“ Sorry M30, just being sarcastic but your response begs a question.... If the service was so bad why on earth did you go back? ”

Anonymous says..“ As has been pointed out here earlier, on sites such as this one and viewmanchester there is a balance to be had between a review by someone with an insight and the rest of the public – both are equally valid. If the reader uses both of these sources they may be able to get a general idea of what these places are like before going and not be blinded by one point of view . Cases in point would include the ‘Oddest bar’ and the horse and jockey ( both in chorlton ). They received excellent reviews from both sites but very poor ones from the public. All things considered I find both mancon and viewmanchester as great sources of info on what to do in and around the city and no review would stop me from going anywhere.”

scoteee says..“ I don't no either, she said something about plastic bottles?! ”

Anonymous says..“ didn't Schofield slate the Horse and Jockey”

That man says..“ Schofield did slate the Horse and Jockey and then he went back and they'd simplified the menu and he thought it much better. ”

Dig says..“ Hi Mark, I believe the restaurant with the rogues gallery of critics is The London Carriageworks and other Hope Street establishments. Your buddy Paul put the 1st one up as business has been slow since your Hope Street strip. The point is not to serve you you better food than us mortals but to put bogeys and spit in your food after stripping off and scaring his customers and other restaurants patrons on Hope Street when you stayed in the hotel. The pics of the other critics are red herrings. The local traffic wardens also have your picture and registration to ticket your car if you park there too. You have been warned, Liverpool is watching!!”

NorthernGeezer says..“ Whilst i take the views of the professional reviewer with a pinch of salt, i find the rants after the review much more informative, and entertaining. I've eaten out on the strength of a rant off Mancon and not been dissapointed, alternativley, i cant say the same based on a review. Only last week i ate a dish on the strength of a review off here, and i wish i hadnt bothered.”

AD says..“ There are only a couple of questions which havent been answered, particulaly those asked by outragedofM1: Do you give restaurants who are also advertisers a 2nd chance to get things right if they let them selves down when you review them? and if you do are non advertising restaurants geting the same second chance? would mancon care to comment?”

Anonymous says..“ well which dish was it? if you think the rants are so informative - add your wisdom”

Jonathan Schofield - editor says..“ No we don't do the second chance thing. That's an old quote.”

Bob the Butcher says..“ "There’s a commonplace phrase which goes, “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.” That, dear readers, is not our way." Why then was my criticism of Frosts butchers in Chorlton deleted from the recent article on butchers?”

Anonymous says..“ Don't want to labour the point but didnt the horse and jockey get a second chance ?”

Mark Garner, the Publisher says..“ NorthernGeezer, please send me the name of the dish and the restaurant and I will take action. If you want you can email me directly; markg@planetconfidential.co.uknoSpam”

Anonymous says..“ how can anyone criticise Frosts? The meat there is very good, I have been going for twenty five years and my old man for fifty? ”

Bob the Butcher says..“ @ Anon - it's a matter of opinion, unfortunately my opinion did not meet the approval of Gordo and so was removed. So much for embracing a range of views...”

scoteee says..“ Gordo, can it not be made so that anonymous ranters are in fact not allowed to remain as such? I dont understand it, make a name up but dont keep being anonymous!”

Jonathan Schofield - editor says..“ I make those decisions Bob and I must have removed it because it was of a personal nature. Keep on topic and that's fine, stray into abuse and I'll take comments off.”

Cas says..“ Am I correct that in hindsight, you wish you'd never done this bloody article? Reviews are obviously opinion based, reviews of reviewers just gets damn murky.”

Bob the Butcher says..“ @ Jonathan - sorry to labour the point but I wasn't in any way abusive. You got it wrong.”

scoteee says..“ i reckon you may be spot on there cas.This initiative will get filed under B1N along side the famous "cook for us competition" that was the funniest avoidance of actually following up on the deed after realising they couldn't be arsed to turn up at someone's random home and eat their food. Now that WAS a classic!”

Gordo says..“ Now Scoteee, be nice ;-)”

Reader another says..“ Shall we get back to the article? I agree with the points above that a paid reviewer is more interesting than reading the comments from readers which are usually inexpert and probably reflect a tiny minority of the sum total of readers.”

Anonymous says..“ Bob the Butcher, I seem to remember that you were downright pig ignorant about Frost's meat and then plugged Alan Jackson in Alderley Edge, you sounded like you worked for him. Then the comments dissapeared when Gordo seemed to get the needle about your lack of pleasantness. Then you whinged fo Britain and bored the pants off evryone. life is too short.”

KT Sansom says..“ I found the article interesting as well as an insight into the way Mancon thinks. I also found it interesting as an insight into the way some of the minority of readers mentioned in the post above think. It's all me, me, me isn't it and as for that Scotty or whatever has he registered every article that every appears on here in his mind. Bless the lad. or lady.”

Reader another says..“ Seriously rather than calling each other names on here, do we think the BBC has produced a biased perception of how the media work in the UK? I think it probably has but it's better that than the wall to wall crap of channels such as Fox in the US. I think Phil Griffins comment's on the Remember Granada article on here are very pertinent to this argument.”

Not just Aunty says..“ It's not only the BBC doing this. The NWDA, MIDAS, Marketing Manchester all produce magazines and sites which look as though they may be impartial commercial pieces which then turn out to be 'stste-funded' advertising puffs for their activities. They should really give that money to commercial organisations so they can produce the material needed in a recession.”

Bob the Butcher says..“ @ Anon - ha ha ha, what relevant points you make hiding behind anonymity. It's called an opinion. I think Alan Jackson's is better than Frost's. The point is an important one as the article above claims to be all in favour of criticism, yet when a person criticises one of ManCon's friends (as Frosty appears to be) then your comments are deleted. How impartial???”

Bombay Potato Pete says..“ Dear ranters above Bob, he won't let it go will he? Listen Bob, why not ask the editor for an article so you can get this off your chest? Oh just a minute with all these rants you've just done that. Honestly fella we get your points and mostly they are nothing to do with whether the restaurant reviews are impartial which is what the articles about and not about whether they are critical. I'm having take out curry by the way right now....ooooooooooh Bombay Potatoes. ”

Bob the Butcher says..“ Fair enough Bombay Pete, point taken. Allow me to offer an opinion on the subject matter. Perhaps ManCon loses some credibility when it gives restaurants like Punters 6.5/10 or Nando's 6/10. The points raised by outraged and M30 are valid, yet no-one from ManCon seems to want to offer a rebuttal and a series of sycophants emerge to defend ManCon. ”

Cas says..“ Frosty's response to Bob's insults, showed me a confident guy, proud of his products, who was able to rise above the playground games. When a reader asked for advice from a butcher, Frosty gave it. I'm going to go on Friday and stock up, so Bob's tactics appear to have backfired.”

Bob the Butcher says..“ Good lord Cas. a) I didn't insult anyone, merely offered an opinion, and b) despite my posting name I'm neither called Bob nor am I a butcher, so how have my tactics backfired? ”

Cas says..“ You're not called Bob? Are you trying to tell me Scotee doesn't has three e's in his name too? That Dig was given that name by his parents? That there isn't a Hazel Blears loving chap with M30 on his birth certificate? I can't take it, I'm going to do my list for Santa.”

Bob the Butcher says..“ I thought you were one of the brighter posters on here Cas but clearly not. My point was that I'm not a butcher, therefore not a competitor, therefore my 'plan' has not backfired.”

Bob the Butcher says..“ I thought you were one of the brighter posters on here Cas but clearly not. My point was that I'm not a butcher, therefore not a competitor, therefore my 'plan' has not backfired.”

Kevin Donald says..“ I think Mancon shows amazing tolerance by allowing that dog with a bone, Bob the Butcher, to keep going on about this which is away from the article's theme. I suppose because I like Mancon I'm a sychophant too. As for outraged's question doesn't the editor answer it above with the statement that advertisers don't get a second chance and that was old news. As for the scoring of Nando's why doesn't he read the way marks are given beneath the ratings on each review. Listen take on board this site and appreciate it for what it is with the only decent food writing in the city. Look at that picture in the article, Sowerby has gone from the MEN, Sturgess from the Metro and full-time hacks are now writing the food pages in the MEN rather than specialists. Is that sychophantic enough for you Bob? Are fans of anything sychophants, Guardian readers, Beano readers, footie supporters. ”

Foodschmood says..“ Am I the only one who values Mancon for everything else it does aside from the food reviews. More of the other stuff please.”

scoteee says..“ Beano readers? I say old chap, calm yourself i'm having hot flushes!”

Anonymous says..“ Cas, I thought M30 was a chick?”

With bite says..“ On the theme of this rather than the social networkers on here, I agree that restaurant reviews should always be as impartial as our biased and partial humanity can be. I can't stand the fact that Cheshire Life and others review places on commission. It's boring and saccharine, it makes me vomit like eating too much sugar.”

Anonymous says..“ Social networkers? You mean people talking to each other instead of ignoring everything but the article!? God forbid this website actually foster a community, oh no, rant in the void and don't ever, EVER, go off topic. How boring that would be.”

Chick says..“ Interesting point Kevin Donald. Last week's restaurant review in the MEN was written by their dedicated crime reportet no less”

Cas says..“ Please tell me he used the phrase 'crime against food' or 'the starter was arresting'? Sorry.”

debsmcc says..“ How about, for the sake of impartiality a pro V punter style review as is used in certain foodie mags? ”

Another John says..“ I've just come back from a trip to Edinburgh where we ate at 21212, Paul and Katie "Juniper"'s new place: they use Frosty for beef especially, even up there near the Arctic Circle. If I was half the communicator that I wished I was - or could remember exactly what the menu was that night, now sadly erased from my head by by a leetle to much L-P Rose - then I'd offer up a review. I'd possibly be a little too biased as I'm always a bit star-struck when it comes to good food and chefs. I hardly get the chance to re-review to double check these things. ”

NoMoreInsideJobs says..“ Is it legitimate to be paid for a bad review by a rival restaurant ? Could be a money spinner ! (joke)”

M30 says..“ I'm amazed an Edinburgh restaurant uses a Manchester supplier for beef, when some of the finest meat in the world is on their doorstep. ”

lucky-chris says..“ Sticking my neck out a bit, but I kinda agree with Bob. Butcher or not.”

Richard Hector-Jones says..“ Here's a thought. Would it be possible for Man Con to publish a large scale limited edition PDF of the image above (charity fundraising of course) so that every restaurant in Greater Manchester can feel like they could be reviewed AT ANY MOMENT? It would look great in my kitchen. Plus the man servant might up his game a bit.”

Chick says..“ Paul Kitchen uses Frost's? They deliver to Edinburgh? Maybe Frosty could verify this, I am sceptical”

Kitching says..“ chick- He may work in one but is not named after one!”

PHIL JONES - MFDF says..“ Editorially removed. Behave yourself Phil. Mark.”

Snapper says..“ In answer to Chick. "As for the mug shots pinned up in the anonymous kitchen; I know one food photographer very well and he spends as much time in the kitchen, watching the food being prepared as he does photgraphng it (and eating it!) If he took the photo and we're told it was recently, I can hazard a pretty good guess as to where the kitchen is." Yes, and you are probably right. If you are going to be photographing food regularly, it makes sense to be interested in it doesn't it. Oh, and yes, food photographers do like to 'sample' but we are just as happy to share with staff. If you think feeding the 'tog' helps the review, one place recently got a rave review- and I wasn't even offered coffee! It's funny, but places that are offhand with the photographer, are often the ones that were lacking on the service front when the reviewer was in. If I taste the food (usually microwaved up) once I've finished, and it's rubbish, guess what, the reviewer found the same when he visited. The worst moments are when you produce a picture that makes the mundane look amazing, then it tastes awful. If you are in the trade, when the photographer calls, mine's a Nescafe in a mug, milk no sugar.”

Snapper says..“ In answer to Chick. "As for the mug shots pinned up in the anonymous kitchen; I know one food photographer very well and he spends as much time in the kitchen, watching the food being prepared as he does photgraphng it (and eating it!) If he took the photo and we're told it was recently, I can hazard a pretty good guess as to where the kitchen is." Yes, and you are probably right. If you are going to be photographing food regularly, it makes sense to be interested in it doesn't it. Oh, and yes, food photographers do like to 'sample' but we are just as happy to share with staff. If you think feeding the 'tog' helps the review, one place recently got a rave review- and I wasn't even offered coffee! It's funny, but places that are offhand with the photographer, are often the ones that were lacking on the service front when the reviewer was in. If I taste the food (usually microwaved up) once I've finished, and it's rubbish, guess what, the reviewer found the same when he visited. The worst moments are when you produce a picture that makes the mundane look amazing, then it tastes awful. If you are in the trade, when the photographer calls, mine's a Nescafe in a mug, milk no sugar.”

Cas says..“ Phil, that'll be just like the impartial nominations for MFDF awards then? Ha!”

Another John says..“ I was going to offer a sort of report-type thing about 21212, you know, like a review or something but I haven't got 'round to it yet. it's mainly because I probably get a little too starry-eyed about chefs and good food to be completely unbiased, as well as being a little gullible. That, and the fact that I've almost completely forgotten what the menu was on Saturday night. I've asked Katie if she'll e-mail what the choices were. I mean, it's not too difficult, fer chrissakes: a choice of 2 starters, 1 soup, 2 mains, 1 dessert, 2 cheeses, and that's where Messrs Laurent & Perrier became too involved... ”

Chick says..“ Snapper, noted, I don't do instant though. Personally, I love the food photographers, they're great fun usually and I have no bother feeding them either! ”

Restaurateur says..“ Phil Jones are you kidding? Your festival is built upon weird sponsorship deals and total partiality. And hey Mancon don't you think it's a bit much this character who runs the flatest, dullest food festival around advertising on here a bit rich.”

Cas says..“ Phil, bascially that website and MFDF are run in the same office aren't they? Shamelessly using MFDF to promote a website? ManCon, I suggest you ignore MFDF next year, especially the awards - most do.”

PTor says..“ Mr Jones shame on you. The level of writing on your site is nowhere near this one. And nor does it do all the other things Mancon does appear on your site. I presume from this advertisement for your site it must be going really badly. ”

Yorkyguy says..“ First of all, huge thanks to ManCon for the recent deals offered on the site. I have taken up the Podium and Harvey Nichols offers and found them to be amazing. Next on my list is The Lowry. Having a mate who is a chef there is certainly an additional bonus, lol. To all those people out there who wish to express their negativity about the way ManCon reviews are conducted, try and be constructive. This site has never forced it's opinions on anyone and to be fair, the reviews seem to be a lot more in depth and helpful compared to some of their counterparts. At present, ManCon is a free service, if you have any issues with the way in which it is produced or with the editiorial content, as an adult, just dont read it! Big thanks to the editors - Love ManCon!!”

Rob says..“ I wish MANCON would stop referring to things at the Lowry Hotel as being at The Lowry... We've asked so many times.”

Maggs says..“ I'm exhausted just reading to the end of all these rants but surely they illustrate more effectively than anything just how good ManCon is at both reviewing restaurants AND generating opinion - best site I have ever found and I would be gutted if it ever disappears so keep going you guys. PS to Bob the (not a) butcher - I know Frosts and Alan Jackson's (and Lords of Middleton) equally well and think they are all great butchers who listen to the customer and get involved/show interest in what you are going to do with the meat you buy - not something to be found in any supermarket that I know of. ”

Anonymous says..“ Eh, Rob, why not get them to always refer to The Lowry as The Lowry Centre and The Lowry Hotel can keep to The Lowry? Actuall, why did you both use that name?”

Just a restaurant manaager says..“ Getting back on track for what the main purpose of this article was pretty much about, I can confirm, its pretty standard practice, in high end restaurants, to have pictures of National (eg Metro, Observer, Times etc) and Loacal publications (MEN, Man Con) reviewers hidden in a staff area. Staff see it every day, and become accustomed with the faces of these people. I would admit it does mean they get better treatment than the mortals. And before you all start piping on... it doesnt mean that you 'mere mortals' get crap service/ food etc, just everything is second checked for a reviewer.”

Chick says..“ Sorry Just a Restaurant Manager, I don't agree. Why would only 'high-end' restaurants do this? If you work in a large restaurant or in a hotel where the staff numbers and turnover are high, maybe. Most of the employees of established restaurants in Manchester know the critics by face if not by name, and many are on good terms with them. Why would you only 'second check' the food and service for a reviewer and not for your customers, regular and new? These are the people who matter, the ones that come back, recommend and ultimately pay the bills. Much as I value the critics, my customers and their opinion are really what matters”

Anonymous says..“ I do trust ManCon's reviews, in general, as I like the fact they're not afraid to criticise. The only one that's made me hesitate in the last year or so was Red Chilli (formerly Moso Moso). I've never known a review and subsequent experience to be so far apart! I can only assume there were different chefs and waiting staff working the night of ManCon's review. I consider my food experience to be reasonable and my mind pretty open. But it was truly dreadful. I wouldn't have even given it 5/20. ”

Anonymous says..“ Scotee - "superb reviews the likes of which shite are found on the fabricated and paid for MEN website." - do you have evidence of this? I'm interested...”

Anonymous says..“ PS... By evidence, I mean stories about the communication between the editorial and commercial departments (rather than just coincidences in content). ”

Anonymous says..“ As an MEN advertiser of around 6 years, I can easily back up what Scotee says. Pay for the big packages, disapear for a bit and try something else, and then the 'editorial' offers begin. ”

Steve says..“ Bob the butcher...did you know that Gordo and Alan Jackson are family? Blows the conspiracy theory right out the water I'd say.”

Blame says..“ Obviously a very busy day at the Lowry CENTRE yesterday. What's in a name? Would a rose by any other name not smell as sweet? Guess it depends on the rose. I'm off to the river room tonight, great food there, love the Lowry :)”

Gordo says..“ Steve, you have outed me! Alan is actually my daughters father in law, a good pal of mine and does awesome meat. As does Frosty, Axons and Lords of Middleton. Ooh, and Walmsleys up in Rambo. my family owned 23 butchers shops and like all my cousins, I had to do my time training to be a 'master butcher' aged 14 onwards and used to work as a KP at that age in the Legh Arms in Prestbury. Which why I am well qualified to state that 'Bob the Butcher' was talking through his bottom. ”

Sally says..“ Blame & Anon there are always two sides to every story. Rob from the Lowry Theatre has repeatedly asked Man Con to refer to the theatre as The Lowry and the hotel as The Lowry Hotel. ”

James says..“ Are Mancon readers so thick we can't tell the difference between the Centre and the Hotel?”

Blame says..“ Rob seems to think so. Makes me wonder if he deserves my patronage.”

NorthernGeezer says..“ Mark/Anonymous - I dont mind naming and shaming in the rant itself, its an open forum and everyones views are welcome, good or bad. It was the Koh Samui last Saturday night. Based on Gordo's review i went for the King Prawn Toasties as a starter and yes, these were excellent. For my main i had the Baked Mixed Seafood in the clay pot. The seafood was overcooked and rubbery (no pun intended, hehehe) with a distinct lack of a selection of the seafood itself, too much squid and not enough fish. The Vermacelli was dry also, it was as if they had given it 2 minutes in the microwave to warm it up prior to serving it. It wasnt that bad that i would have complained about it, just not good enough to have again, especially as i had it based on Gordo's review.”

Gordo says..“ Pity that Northern, I liked that dish. I had a take out from there last Saturday, it was great apart from the pork and prawn toasties, they were really rank to be honest.”

NorthernGeezer says..“ It wont put me off going, i'll just stick to me usual pork red curry, though i was tempted by the belly pork.”