That Nick Griffin victory: cheer up, he’s rubbish

bookofthefuture says..“ People need to realise that this is a direct result of their apathy. When we stop participating in our democracy, inevitably those with motivation will gain power. There's no guarantee that their motivation comes with any sensible ideas or even a vague grasp of reality, as the BNP's members so ably and consistently demonstrate. However disaffected you may be with our array of morally-questionable, money-grabbing MPs, if you didn't vote then you are responsible for handing a measure of power to these numbskulls.”

Yn Ddraig Goch says..“ Where does Griffin do the cut-off then? Presumably in 1066. Wonder what his views on the French are? What about, for example, Aussies? Kiwis? What a moron.

I was interested though to hear that Voluntary Repatriation was introduced by Labour in the '70s and is still available.

His logic was brilliant; he'd love to accept non-whites into the party (particularly Sikhs), but in the event of somebody being dismissed for BNP membership, you can claim racial discrimination as it's white-only. Makes some sense, right? Now swap "BNP" for "KKK".”

Kev P says..“ We tried through the HOPE not hate campaign, fantastically organised by Anthony McCaul here in Manchester, to raise awareness about the disgusting views of the BNP and persuade people who wouldn't normally bother to go out and vote for anyone as long as it wasn't them. We succeeded to an extent but unfortunately national issues ruled the day and people were so fed up with the mainstream parties that they either stayed at home or voted for the fringe nutters like the fascist BNP and UKIP.

What politicians from all parties need to do now is listen to the message given to them by the voters and snap into gear to sort out this allowances debacle, re-connect with the voters and deliver their messages about the policies they want to put forward and the direction in which they want to take the country in the future.

THAT should be the basis on which the next election is fought and that should be how people decide which party to support.”

Ron says..“ If the Labour 'no shows' had turned up to vote Green instead of doing nothing, we wouldn't have the BNP. I'm a Labour voter and I voted, but don't people realise that apathy is fascism's best friend?”

Anonymous says..“ Good on the BNP... i might not agree with all their manifesto BUT...the people voted with their feet... get used to it, this is total common sense..something the labour party are sadly lacking, being sheep.”

Stephanie says..“ The turn out was embarassing, especially in a city like Manchester with such a strong political history. I would hope that this would galvanise more people to vote in the General Election but I have my doubts. Nick Griffin as my MEP and Hazel Blears as my MP - I must have done something wicked in a previous life!”

spicy says..“ Anonymous, erm, what exactly is the "total common sense" of BNP policies... Booting out British people cos their skin is a bit dusky? Or discouraging mixed race relationships as it dilutes the white blood line? Or sending back all immigrants to their homelands (who does the work? The white kids I drive past on the way home from work every day don't seem to be that bothered about doing a bit of manual labour, too busy they are having children and keeping their hands down the fronts of their trackie bottoms). Or maybe leaving the EU, at a stroke taking away the biggest free marketplace we have to trade in? Or are you being Machiavellian and just suggesting that their policies are "total common sense" because they mislead and trick disenfranchised people into voting for them? Labour Party members may be sheep, but the BNP are wolves. I, however, am a cat. Or perhaps a tiger. Hear me growl.”

Castlefield says..“ They voted for the BNP because they wanted to, not a protest vote. A lot of BNP voters agree with their policies no matter how distasteful we find them. This is democracy. No amount of back turning for show, or lambasting by religious figures is going to help, the BNP are a political voice now democratically elected. Until the people who were tempted to vote for the BNP feel mainstream political parties are taking their views seriously then they will continue to vote this way. The mainstream will not talk about immigration for fear of racism allegations but they need to as obviously a lot of the population are concerned. Have you looked at UKIP's website recently? I just looked at the BNP's and they have warplanes, UKIP have Winston Bloody Churchill, they have many similar though better articulated ideas - and UKIP did well at the elections also. BNP and UKIP combined got 23%;;, Labour got 15%;; and Lib Dems 13%;;. There are issues here people are concerned about and until mainstream parties learn this and react, their support will increase. Dismissing this as a protest vote is very naive and those that voted for the BNP will find it condescending which will galvanise them even more.”

Hieronymous Biff says..“ @Anonymous - BNP voters may well have voted with their feet but most of us have evolved to a level where we are able to vote using our hands .”

Fork Sake says..“ Depressing as hell to wake up to this as headline news on Monday. Couldn't decide who I was angrier with: the ignorant bunch of IQ-deficient bell-ends who actually voted BNP or the apathetic slew of myopic cretins who couldn't be bothered ticking a box to stop this utterly shambolic result from occurring. Yay Manchester. We’ve shown ourselves up to be a passel of total fu*kwits to the rest of the country.”

Edmund Burke or similar says..“ "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing..."”

Steve Grange says..“ Firstly David Icke is an inspiration but you need to take the time to read his books to know that. The MSM will always try and ridicule him. Secondly I do not want to bump into Nick Griffin or Hazel Blears when chomping on my lunchtime sandwich.”

spicy says..“ Do Hazel and Nick often eat together? I imagine they scoff their food like the aliens from V. Live mice all in one go, for those of you too young to remember.”

Gim Runny says..“ Jonathan Schofield is right. We can get too easily carried away by the threat of Nick Griffin's lot. Perhaps UKIP are a greater threat. The BNP didn't really increase its vote after all but it sticks in the throat that that fool Griffin will get a wage from all of this.”

milty says..“ Lets hope Nick Griffin keeps up the good work, hes represents the poor white working class who have been abandoned, first by lets stick the boot in Thatcher, then that couple of grinning canivers Blair n Brown, and the more you slag Nick Griffin off the more he has my support.”

paulm says..“ Milty, what good work exactly has Nick Griffin so far done?

”

Genetic pedant says..“ Bit worrying that someone who makes his living as a historian of sorts has rather less historical knowledge than the supposedly stupid Mr Griffin (a mistake all journalists are making--he might be odious in many ways, but he ain't dumb).

No, Britain, on the whole, is not a nation of immigrants unless you're going back thousands of years. Yes, as Griffin sort of suggests, the vast majority of people living in these isles can trace at least some of their bloodlines (okay, Y chromosmal or mitochondrial DNA) back to peoples living on the islands not too long after the last ice age. Sorry, Mr S, contrary to what you were taught in school, there were no 'celtic' invasions (or indeed celtic peoples at that time), and probably no anglo-saxon ones either (as opposed to migrations, though that does through a spanner in Griffin's use of the term). Stephen Oppenheimer on the Origins of the British, suggests that the impact of 'celt' or anglo-saxon on the genetic make-up of Britons was tiny. David Miles suggests 80%; of the genetic material of native britons came from a tiny group (12,000 ish strong) arriving on the islands at the end of the LGM.

I'm off to get a life ”

Fork Sake says..“ Milty, please wake up: being poor, white and working class does not give us the excuse to be ignorant, hate-mongering morons.”

Anonymous says..“ Getting himself out of the country and to somewhere noone will hear him or care what he does? Seriously, everyone's going mad about the EU elections we hear nothing from them apart from silly laws. If nothing else maybe this will get us more engaged in what's going on over in the EU. Not because we agree with Griffin, but because now (maybe) the papers will actually tell us something about what goes on over there.”

Law says..“ As Ive heard a few commentators say, Don't try and Censor them, dont make them Martyrs for thier cause, just watch them make fools of themselves and redicule them. They will not last 5 minutes, this is not a repeat of the 1930s, just an unwelcome side effect of apathy and a protest vote against the political elite, who hopefully, have had the **** put up them and will start actually getting back into proper politics. Good Article.”

SB says..“ Let's hope their moment in the sunshine is brief. For all the misguided 'ordinary folk' in the BNP it remains a party full of Hitler worshippers.”

Lou says..“ @Milty, you should probably read about what the BNP say about the working class before you vote for them again: Simon Smith (BNP councillor): “White working class scum will be swept away by a future BNP government.””

Anonymous says..“ Everyone is allowed a choice is that not democracy is about? Does it not make all party's wonder he may only have got a small percentage of the vote, but that small ammount got him to be MEP. Is it time for the english people who did vote for him to be listened to. I did not vote for this man I chose to waste my vote but I feel immigration is an important matter we are too politically correct and this may be our way of redress.”

spicy says..“ @Genetic pedant. Er, I AM a historian with an expertise in both medieval and Elizabethan eras. I tell you this not to toot my own horn, but to say that your "analysis" of the genetic make up of Britons is, well, nonsense. I'm sorry, but wherever you look in these islands we're as much of a genetic soup as anywhere else in the world, with the exception of the very new countries such as the US and Australia. It may be tempting to try and create a myth of Britain standing alone, but it doesn't make it any more true. The BNP trot out this tripe as some kind of fig leaf cover for the fact they just don't like people who look like they've got a bit of the sun. Which is probably based on jealousy. I won't talk about my theories on their repressed homosexuality. In saying all of that, and much more importantly, those who try and shout down the BNP and throw eggs at them merely succeed in giving them more publicity and more support. We need to win hearts and minds. Hearts and minds.”

Stay Alert says..“ The fact that the BNP are ignorant vicious racists who have managed to attract the support of those who have little knowledge of what facism actually means and who voted BNP in reaction against the mess the major parties have created, should not mean we should write off the real threat the BNP pose. Just dismissing them as 'carpet salesmen' and being equally critical and derisive about those that had the presence to demonstrate against them, is reminiscent of the kind of pseudo smugness which led our forbears and politicans like Neville Chamberlain to think the Nazis were appeasable. They are not. They never can or will be and if you dont protest and block them every which way you can, they will grow in power and influence - the Third Reich started off small too and also attracted disaffected working class people initially. Get wise. Let's not allow history to repeat itself - and dont be smug - none of us can afford that-the ba****ds already have a foot in the door.”

"...but let’s not get carried away..." says..“ Sorry Mancon, that's simply not good enough. Of course we should be carried away. The BNP are fascist thugs. If they feel more confident as a result of this election then that will mean more racist attacks in our region. By the way, the Manchester Evening News did a great job with their sustained reporting against the BNP before the election. Where were you Mancon?”

No let's not get carried away says..“ Today was bad. Instead of ignoring the BNP Griffin got egged outside Parliament. This means more publicity for the idiots. More profile. More support as people react to the reaction. I agree with the report, these people are being fed by your hatred. They are meaningless but you give them meaning. Stop it, ignore them, turn a cold shoulder, get out amongst the communities that voted for them and make a mainstream case for democracy and diversity.”

Fran says..“ As an anti BNP campaigner for 15 years who has taken life far too seriously for far too long..thanks Kev for cheering me up..and yes Nick Griffin is rubbish..and he should go straight to bed with no supper I say..”

James P (not Purnell) says..“ Why do people make the analogy with Hitler? Britain has not just been humiliated in a world war, Griffin is not Hitler - read the speeches of each, Griffin is not Hitler in the latter's vile charisma either, this party has no middle class support, the middle class choose the rulers in every country, the country in no way resembles Germany of the early twenties and early thirties, Britain in no way has, and never has had, the same belief in national identity as Germany. Aside from the Nazis we have a first past the post system of general elections so 8%; of the vote gets no-one in anywhere. It's an irony that a European system of PR from a continent blighted by far right politics has allowed a fascist into UK politics. And while we're worrying about extremists what about the Muslim representative in the protesters outside the Town Hall, what would he have the women wearing when out in public. Extremists are all dangerous whether it's through bigotry of racism or through the dogma of religion. But neither poses any threat - any true threat - to our democracy unless we talk them up all the time feed them this absurd publicity.”

Castlefield says..“ Oh the MEN campaign, that did the trick didn't it?! Perhaps if media organisations had gone through the issues instead of trotting out the usual 'thick facist thugs' line then it may have worked. Take the points that the BNP get votes on, the 'asylum seekers take your council houses' leaflet for one, and explain it, dismantle it and then let the public decide. All this egg throwing etc is playing right into their hands, that was why Griffin was at Westminster, it's not his seat nor where he will be representing his seat - those idiots gave him what he wanted. There was the leader of those protests on Newsnight tonight, and he was an embarassing idiot who couldn't hold water let alone an argument. It's just extreme against extreme. Whether you like it or not people are entitled to their views, that's the constitution of our country. Trotting out the 'well they didn't see it coming before Hitler' line isn't helping, it's a different world now. These, as I see them, professional left wing protesters, are always doing demos in Manchester and there are always people there with Communist flags and associated material, would it be ok for people to attack and egg these whilst shouting 'you're just like Stalin' at them? Communism killed millions and still hangs a dark shadow over billions but this seems ok as it's just a bit more left. I don't agree with the BNP however we need a national discussion on what we want regarding immigration without everyone who may have an anything other than all welcome attitude being branded a racist or facist. A vote in this country whether it be my vote, yours or a BNP voters is equal. Telling those who chose to vote for the BNP or the more accpetable version, UKIP, they are thick mis-guided idiots is not going to help. The BNP votes were not because of duck houses or flipping, there is a large proportion of the population who think the interests and fears of ordinary people are being put to one side, and whether you like it or not this includes immigration. The poster above us says the BNP success will bring more racist attacks, oh and telling everyone who agrees with them they are thick and mis-guided will placate them will it? Throwing eggs at and assaulting people they have voted for, that will make them want to debate won't it! You're plain stupid if you think you can deal with these issues like this.”

Nomoreeggs says..“ The writer was totally correct to mock the protesters they probably have only half an idea about what fascism is anyway. He was right to say Griffin is a side-show as well. But feed the lunatic on your agression and egg-throwing and he will grow. He can only grow on hate, it feeds him and his party.”

C Davies says..“ Fran, if you were anti-BNP you weren't very successful were you? Did you grow the vote of your enemy? And what were you pro?”

Paul says..“ Jonathon is right the BNP are rubbish, and of course appalling and stupid. But then Labour/Cons and Lib dems are hardly inspiring are they? The point is, the best they (and some on here) can do is say please vote for us - at least we're not the BNP. That just isn't good enough. I can completely understand why people didn't vote for the major parties. Why would you, or should you, go out and vote -let alone campaign for - something you don't believe in? Sadly, so bereft of any principles are the mainstream parties that their next move has usually been to play tough on immigration to try and appeal to what they think our our prejudices, and it's that that really makes these views more acceptable and part of unchallenged political currency. The vast majority of people don't have those prejudices, they just know they don't want what is on offer from the mainstream parties anymore - which is nothing other than petty managerialism. In terms of ideas, it's not much of an answer to the BNP, and given how crap the BNP are that's saying something.”

Anonymous says..“ Hazel Blears and the rest of the 'bent' MPs are directly responsible for the growth of the fascist BNP vote. I was ashamed that the North West, which I've always considered a welcoming, tolerant place, should show their anger at the corrupt MPs by turning to the racists.”

Anonymous says..“ I wonder if the current policy of the media blanking the BNP isn't actually contributing to their appeal. Right now, they're a bit of a Boys Own club for people who get their political news from the Sun. The BNP can lie and equivocate without being challenged, because it's all pub chat at the moment. Turn Paxman or Jon Snow loose on Nick Griffin or their spokesmen, and watch the BNP look like the knuckledraggers they are.”

east lancs says..“ @spicy - please do expand upon your theory, genuinely interested :o)

@lastanon, sticking Griffin in front of Paxman would be ace. Stick him in front of Bruno. That'd be funnier.”

jaybee says..“ the fascist thugs who attacked Griffin's car are a disgrace. The UAF gangsters, a gutless bunch of bully-boy hoodlums, were granted free passage by the police who allowed them to do what they wanted, no doubt under orders from No10! God bless Nick Griffin and Andrew Brons. The BNP received a near one million votes, the Tories four million, that my dears, is democracy. Of course the Communist front groups like the UAF thugs would ban democratic elections, it is in their authoritarian nature. Anyway when they grow up.....”

Erm, what? says..“ Jaybee, I'm sat down, I'm holding on... In what way - in your deranged little racist mind - did the PM get the UAF involved?

Again, well done on benefitting from apathy and protest votes, jolly well done. You got less votes than last time. Seriouslly well done.”

Pedant says..“ Paxman has been 'turned' on Griffin, anonymous. He got hammered, just as Humphreys did on R4 on Monday. Serious journalists believe they're much more intelligent than BNP lowlifes, so they don't research and don't take them seriously, and look like fools.

Spicy, for 80%; of the British population our genetic soup is remarkably uniform (and boring). There are two main markers; one from north-western Spain (the 'Atlantic' strain), and one from the continent, and before that it gets even more uniform. Maybe you need to move your specialisms back a few thousand years... ”

Castlefield says..“ Erm What - Firstly nationally they did not get less votes. Secondly the longer people delude themselves thinking these are simply protest votes, the longer people will vote BNP/UKIP. There is a large proportion of the country who think immigration is a major issue not been touched upon by major parties, their vote is as worthy as yours.”

Erm what redux says..“ Cas, they did mate. They got 2,800 less than last time: http://tinyurl.com/mqbn64

Surely if somebody was protesting against immigration, they'd vote UKIP or even Tory, rather than BNP? You're right; many folk feel the BNP will protect their interests, I honestly believe many of their supporters aren't actually racist, and that they believe Griffin's almost-convincing spin.”

Castlefield says..“ Erm - isn't that link just for the North West? I think nationally they got more but I have been known to be wrong, not often though! Even the Conservaties don't want to talk about immigration and UKIP hide it under the Europe issue, people want an upfront debate and a lot want the result of that to be much less immigration.”

Boredofitall says..“ I think the point we are missing here is not due to the fact BNP/UKIP have received more votes than they have done in previous elections but because of the fact not enough people voted against them. The policies of both these parties are hugely contradictory to there own standings, the perfect example is of course UKIP using the great Winston Churchill on their campaign flyers. If they had chosen to do a minimum amount of reasearch they would have known that Winston Churchill was very positive about integrating the UK into Europe. This just shows how thick the idiots behind these parties actually are.. ”

Boredofitall says..“ I agree with Castlefield, immigration is brushed under the carpet too much. The media focuses on the negative effects of it and the positive effects are only noticed when your Indian takeaway goes downhill after a police raid on the illegals. Why does it get swept under a rug? There are postive and negatives to all government issues and immigration is a big deal that we need to talk about. LET'S TALK ABOUT IT!!”

johnthebrief says..“ I happened to catch on Newsnight an interview with the man who apparently arranged the famous egg-throwing protest - didn't catch his name or organisation. I have to say he came across as a rather more scary fascist than Griffin himself, with his absolute certainty in his own infallibility, and his assumption of the right to decide who should be allowed to speak. I'm sorry, while I hold no torch for BNP and its thugs, freedom of speech only matters when it offends. Shouting them down and mobbing their speeches is both antidemocratic, and hugely counterproductive.”

Cllr Mike Amesbury says..“ It was a real sorry sight to witness the leader of a fascist fringe party to get his election confirmed in Manchester Town Hall. A number of factors contributed to this including the expenses scandal, the economic downturn and a low turn out. The BNP managed to exploit this and scrape through. Many of us in the Labour party continue to campaign for a fairer and more prosperous society, we will defeat the BNP if we stick to our values and boldly affirm them.”

Castlefield says..“ Mike, please don't trot out the usual tripe. The BNP got votes because a decent percentage of people are sick of parties like yours not dealing with the issues that concern them. Let's be honest and say there are a lot of people in Burnley who feel marginalised by a large immigrant community, they are worried about immigration. Whilst politicians and people like yourself pass out the usual 'fringe party, facists, protest votes, low turnout exploited' excuses then people will continue to vote this way. Anyway whose to say there wasn't a low turnout amongst BNP voters, they were not put off by the massive media campaign against them? Mike don't come on here under your 'cllr' title and tell us why democracy didn't work, tell us your views on the BNP's specific policies and then your views on immigration. I'm sure ManCon would be happy to give you an article, what are you waiting for? Isn't that how politics and democarcy should work?”

Anonymous says..“ It's a sad state of affairs but for gods sake everyone, get over yourselves. We live in a democracy, they got voted in and we have to respect that.

I detest Labour too, but some idiots voted for them last time around and I accept that - as mental as this sounds we should thank god we live in a country where any mentalist or crackpot can have an idea and get voted into power. You might not like what they say (i certainly don't) but that's the price of having freedom of speech. Would you rather a dictatorship? Because that's the only other option. Oh, of course you could all have actually voted in the elections. 30%; turn out was it? So 70%; of our city couldn't be f_cked with it.

If you didn't vote you have no right to complain.”

Paul says..“ Actually I have every right to complain however I voted, and that includes not voting for any of them. It's for the parties to put forward an agenda to try and persuade me to vote for them, and they all failed. Voting is just the end part of democracy not the whole of it, and I do not support what is on offer, so why go through with the vote? Are you seriously asking people to go and endorse a party, and its policies, if they don't believe in what they do? The BNP are marginal as a protest, by far the biggest protest vote of all in this election was those not voting. And that's an indictment of the exhausted politics of the parties, not the voters - who, as people have said are entitled to their say if you like it or not.”

Si says..“ Just watched the BNP video of Griffin immediately after the result was declared (http://bnp.org.uk/2009/06/bnptv-interviews-nick-griffin-mep/) and, although I find most of his ideas deplorable, you've got to give the guy credit for at least speaking openly and honestly about what he believes in, unlike all the other self serving MPs that claim to "represent" us at the moment.”

MiserableMike says..“ Well, typical the BNP gets elected in Manchester - of all places. The multi-cultural, creative, political Madchester. I don’t agree with the BNP's policies but what do people expect? When I got to the polling station there was a ballot paper with 12 parties on it. 12! I didn’t see/ hear or read any info from these alternative parties except the mainstream ones. Let’s be clear, we are facing a crisis in democracy. The vote turnout in this fair city was about 30%; so the majority of the voting population couldn’t be bothered to even vote. This is shameful. I have a proposal - Make it illegal not to vote. Thus everyone must respond. Even if they don’t want to participate, a little participation is required. Simply, they must fill in a form that details WHY they don’t vote. Put something on the form that says, for example; none of the parties offer us anything, or they are all in it for themselves, no one listens to us, or even I can’t be arsed. Anything- that means that people must let the political class know what the problem is with voting. Also, the media have been quite obnoxious in the reporting the BNP election. THEY are the ones who are in the prime position to challenge the politicians/ spokespeople on their policies. Proposing questions such as “Do you realise most people think you are racists?” is just disgraceful. Ask them about their policies – no one else has. ”

Anonymous says..“ I voted for him, as did many others. It had zero to do with me rebelling against labour, so please don't speak for me in the tone of Apathy. As far as I am aware this is a democratic Country, meaning we are free to vote whom we wish and certainly don't need anyones approval of who or who NOT to vote for in a democratic Country!”

Anonymous says..“ I am not nor have ever been a supporter of the BNP or can conceive the possiblities of voting personally for them , but cant you accept that maybe people do, not as a protest vote but because thay actually agree with them I suspect they have many more supporters than the poles suggest ”

rufus t. firefly says..“ Hieronymous Biff, I generally use a pen.”

Hieronymous Biff says..“ @Anonymous I suspect the BNP don't trust the Poles either.”

Phil Jones says..“ Man Con have repeatedly given a voice platform to the BNP on this forum . It was, we were told harmless and free speech! Well now we have the 2 most obnoxious people in the UK representing us and our interests. I hope there is an apology from Man Con, And that a no platform for racists and fascists is adherd to ? Phil ”

Jonathan Schofield - editor says..“ Phil don't be bloody ridiculous. We've made our position clear over the BNP, we loathe them. It may also have escaped your notice that we always remove racist comments the very few times they've appeared. There are no racist postings following this article even though there may be people who are writing in support of the BNP. Also it may have escaped your notice that the BBC and others interviewed the BNP candidates that won on Sunday. Should they apologise for giving them an airing? Your type of censorship gives succour to the extreme right, it's ridiculous, it threatens the freedom of the press as well. We have no need to issue an apology. ”

Anonymous says..“ Having been involved opposing the National Front when were active thirty years I well remember worrying if we my neighbours and I would have to defend our neighbourhood from attack. The BNP want to help non whites whatever there citizenship to leave Britain. Do people believe that that 'help' will only be money?”